Reply To: God and Abstract Objects


Hi jerryb225, thank you for continuing the conversation.

You have introduced some new concepts to me. So I am taking my understanding of PoE & PoC from here.
I don’t think I have explained the primacy issue and I’m not sure why I should feel compelled to justify myself based on a philosophy that seems purposely limited?

The primacy of existence (of reality) is the axiom that existence exists, i.e., that the universe exists independent of consciousness (of any consciousness), that things are what they are, that they possess a specific nature, an identity.

Consciousness exists.
Something that exists exists independent of consciousness.
Therefore consciousness exists independent of consciousness.
Consciousness cannot exist independent of consciousness.
Therefore consciousness does not exist.

If the very thing(consciousness) that perceives that which exists does not exist then the axiom of Primacy of existence is founded on something that does not exist. If I am in any way correct, then not only does the PoE require a hell of a lot of assumptions but is in fact contradictory.

“It was aware of itself” seems to be too convenient and easy of an answer”

I can’t imagine you would be satisfied with an inconvenient and difficult answer. So to say, consciousness with no substance or existence can’t identify itself as conscious, is to say, consciousness does not exist. Perhaps Rand’s intention was that consciousness is contingent on a physical object, such as the brain, and that may be so, for humans, but that certainly does not exhaust the cosmos.

What do you think? I am pretty much a rookie at this sort of thing, so I don’t assert that I know Rand is wrong, even though it seems to me she was. I have a different take on the issue of existence that doesn’t seem to fit in the Objectivist universe.