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chris.stone
MemberDid anyone watch the Molyneux vs Sam Seder debate? Seder hit Molyneux with the Cuyahoga river.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcUkA0tq28 (Cuyahoga river discussion starts at 25:00 minutes in)
I thought Stefan handled it pretty well.
Check out this picture…
MemberThanks Michael! I hope you can find something we could point to.
BTW, Tom, I just downloaded the Tom Woods android application onto my cell phone! 🙂
Member@porcupine: Are you telling me that all major rivers throughout the history of the United States have be publicly owned?
I thought it would be just the opposite. I thought we grew up in a country where ownership of land include rivers.
You can’t just claim that since the river was polluted it therefore must have be publicly owned.
BTW, I can’t find any evidence that says this river was owned by the State of Ohio, or any other municipalities. Can you?
MemberI just know Krugman is going to nail you on this one in a debate.
He’s going to say this is proof why we need an EPA and government. Krugman is going to claim that the river was privately owned back then.
I can’t imagine that river being public property. Was that typical of rivers in the United States?
If that was the only river in the US that was public property, then that’s a huge win for us. But if most rivers back then were privately owned then it would be pretty hard to dispute a claim that the river wasn’t public property.
MemberCheck out this picture….
MemberSiris is the ancient Mesopotamian Goddess of beer.[1]
MemberSorry, I think the article said he was the inventor of “luxury”, not wealth. I bet Menes was a brutal dictator/tyrant and he conquered Lower Egypt through force.
Also, I recently learned about writing in Somalia dating back to 9000BC on cave paintings. Supposedly Somalia was where the Land of Punt was located.
MemberDo we know much about how Menes was able to unite the two parts of Egypt?
I also found some other interesting things on Wikipedia, namely that Menes was the inventor of “wealth” (probably through theft) and that he also invented writing. Also, the Egyptian crown is a double crown which is the Northern crown and Southern crown combined into one. He also founded the city of crocodilopolis which is a really cool name for a city.
Since Menes invented wealth, this leads me to believe that he was probably a tyrant. It also leads me to believe that he didn’t unite upper and lower Egypt peacefully. This is why I ask if we know much about the diplomacy involved. Do we know which part of Egypt Menes was from?
Also, as the inventor of writing, I’m sure we are getting Menes’ version of how things happened. 😉
MemberThis gives new meaning to the phrase “Knowledge is power”.
I guess the priests were there to pass knowledge from one generation to the next and they eventually invented writing.
I don’t like the idea of requiring writing to be needed for the definition of a civilization since it seems clear that Egypt had a civilization long before the advent of writing.
I’m just surprised it took them so long to figure out a way to write down knowledge. Perhaps writing existed much further back in antiquity, but it was a closely guarded secret and not much evidence exists today of writing before 3000BC or so.
MemberThanks Dr. J. I find this topic of early civilization fascinating. I’m now getting a clear picture of when civilizations arose in the time-line.
According to this[1], agriculture in Egypt started about 8000BC and the primary crop was wheat which today we know to be toxic[2]. It seems odd that people say Egypt started about 3000BC, I doubt it would take five millenia to start a civilization.
I have heard that the Hebrew text which says Adam and Eve lived around 6000BC is why people say that Egypt starts at 3000BC. So I’m a little sceptical of the dates given.
Anyway, thanks again for the responses.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_agriculture
[2] http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/sisson9.1.1.htmlMemberThanks to the Cuyahoga river which started the Clean Water Act and the EPA, we now have the EPA trying to regulate ditches and gullies on private land.
Unfortunately I cannot argue against the formation of the EPA and the Clean Water Act, because in a free market rivers like the Cuyahoga start catching on fire.
Is there no historical evidence whatsoever to suggest that a free market does *not* cause rivers to start catching on fire?
Am I the only one who thinks this is important?
MemberI’m just thinking that agriculture is probably the worst mistake mankind has ever made. Instead of warring tribes, agriculture has brought us warring states.
MemberAlso, on lecture 4, the worlds oldest coin link is not working…
MemberI also found this, no laws against dumping whatever you want in the river. But what about lawsuits? Private property rights, etc? It feels like I’m only getting half of the story here. I can’t believe that every single company along the river in Akron and Cleveland was happy with dumping all their waste into it.
–Pollution has been the main factor in the Cuyahoga River. It was very prevalent in the early 1800’s as well as now. Industry and population have made the river become a “flowing dump”. Raw sewage was a big problem, because it was directly dumped into the Cuyahoga River. Cleveland started to have rapid growth and had about 40,000 people living there at that time.
–Industry was a prime source in the pollution. There were no laws or rules of what one could dump in the river. Refining oil was a big industry in that time. John D. Rockefeller made it possible for the oil business to come to Cleveland. There were many things being dumped in the river such as: gasoline, oil, paint, and metals. The river was called “a rainbow of many different colors”. Before the turn of the century it was thought that “a dirty river was sign of prosperity.” [1]
MemberIn this video[1] from 1967 at 2:20 in they say that businesses downstream had to clean the water in order to use it. This does not make any sense. Why would companies downstream have to be responsible for cleaning the water polluted by companies upstream?? Is there any historical evidence of downstream companies trying to sue? Where there any legal property owners for the river?
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